znow o jezyku polskim

Liczba wypowiedzi w tym wątku: 17

11. Data: 2004-11-16 02:42:23

Temat: Re: znow o jezyku polskim
Od: f...@b...com (Floyd L. Davidson) szukaj wiadomości tego autora

elgar_mail <e...@b...pl> wrote:
>On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:44:12 +0000 (UTC), Pyzol wrote:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit
>
>A spójrz stronę obok:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo
>
>"There are two main groups of Eskimo: the Inuit of northern Alaska, Canada
>and Greenland and the Yupik of western Alaska and the Russian Far East."
>
>Owszem:
>"Many _Canadian_ Inuit consider the name "Eskimo" to be derogatory."

Actually what Inuit people object to the is the derogatory use
of the word, not the word itself. Many non-Eskimo Canadians
have come to believe it is derogatory in itself, and while that
is not really true, the appropriate concern is indeed very nice.

>Jednak:
>"The term "eskimo" is still used in Alaska to refer to the state's Arctic
>peoples in general, whether or not they are Eskimos culturally or
>linguistically. For example, while the Yupik people prefer to be called
>"Yup'ik", they do not generally object to being called "Eskimo", but they
>resent being called "Inuit". "

There are two problems with the above. First, "Eskimo" is
*never* used to reference non-Eskimo Arctic people. Or at least
not by anyone who knows what they are saying. (And using it
that way would be considered a mark of extreme ignorance.)
Eskimo is restricted to Inuit and Yupik people.

Note also that "Yup'ik" references one particular group of Yupik
people. The Central Alaskan Yupik people are referred to as
Yup'ik, as is their dialect. (The apostophe indicates a "double
stop", which is the way "Yupik" is pronounced anyway, so it is
merely a more precise way of spelling "Yupik": pronounced
"youp-pik", with emphasis on the first syllable.) Other Yupik
people, for example, are the Cupik, the Alutiiq, and the Siberian
Yupik.

>Oraz:
>"Among many non-Eskimos, the word "Eskimo" is falling out of use to refer
>to the Eskimo peoples in favor of the term "Inuit", which leads to much
>_confusion_ as to the relationship between the Inuit and the Yup'ik. Much
>of the impetus behind this change probably traces to the books of Farley
>Mowat, particularly People of the Deer and The Desperate People. However,
>in Canada at least, a belief in the pejorative etymology of the word was a
>major factor."

Mowat, of course, wrote novels that were disguised as "research
papers", and many people believed it was non-fiction. In fact
Mowat knew little about Eskimos and none of the "experiences"
related in the books were true. They were totally generated in
the imagination of Mowat, who had never met an Eskimo...

It should be noted that Mowat writes *very* good stories!
Regardless of how little he actually knew about either Eskimos
or wolves, his books did have exactly the impact he intended,
and have to be considered a major success as not just commercial
publications, but also for the social engineering that he
accomplished. For example, most of what Mowat claimed about
wolves was simply not true, yet as a result of what he wrote,
today we do know a great deal about wolves that we didn't know
in the 1950's when he first started publishing.

There is a fascinating story behind that. A teenager read
Mowat's "People of the Deer" in the mid-50's, thinking it was
the true story of a field biologist. He was so taken with the
whole idea that he was inspired to complete a PhD in 1962 as a
field biologist, studying wolves of course! It is ironic that
his thesis, "The ecology of the timber wolf (Canis lupus
Linnaeus) in Isle Royale National Park", was published the year
before Mowat published "Never Cry Wolf". Of course L. David
Mech went on to publish "The Wolf" (1970), which more than
corrects Mowat's distortions (such as the notion that wolves can
live on a diet of mice).

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) f...@b...com

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12. Data: 2004-11-16 02:58:25

Temat: Re: znow o jezyku polskim
Od: "Bluzgacz" <b...@g...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

"Natalia" <k...@p...onet.pl> wrote in message
news:4452.000000e7.4198d798@newsgate.onet.pl...

> tymczasem sa slowa po polsku, ktore mi przez gardlo nie przejda

Slowa, slowa, slowa....
Sprobuj czegos innego w zamian.........

> a w domu czeka na mnie prawdziwa, przepyszna zupa kalafiorowa
> mojego autorstwa

Tak szczerze: chuj mnie to obchodzi Natalko?

> (o ile wspollokatorzy sie jeszcze nia nie
> poczestowali, jak to bylo w sobote z moja zupa pomidorowa,
> ktora im baaaardzo smakowala, hehe)

Ale kurwa smieszne, he-he-he, tej.............
--

Bluzgacz
GG:5015
skype: bluzgacz, na tlenie tez
gdzies pomiedzy innymi na:
http://psphome.dhtml.pl/uzytkownicy.html

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13. Data: 2004-11-16 02:59:56

Temat: Re: znow o jezyku polskim
Od: "Bluzgacz" <b...@g...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

"Natalia" <k...@p...onet.pl> wrote in message
news:4452.00000117.4198e66d@newsgate.onet.pl...

> ano nic, zabijam nude ;)
> zanudzajac innych
> jak to w necie

Udaje ci sie.
Przyslij mi fotke swojego psa, chcialbym sie przekonac jak wyglada ten,
ktory ma przejebane..........
--

Bluzgacz
GG:5015
skype: bluzgacz, na tlenie tez
gdzies pomiedzy innymi na:
http://psphome.dhtml.pl/uzytkownicy.html

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14. Data: 2004-11-16 12:03:25

Temat: Re: znow o jezyku polskim
Od: elgar_mail <e...@b...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:42:23 -0900, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
[cut]
> Actually what Inuit people object to the is the derogatory use
> of the word, not the word itself. Many non-Eskimo Canadians
> have come to believe it is derogatory in itself, and while that
> is not really true, the appropriate concern is indeed very nice.

Your point puts me at rest ;-) and probably ends the uncertainty raised by
Pyzol' claim (that you should say Inuit rather than Eskimo because the
latter is a derogatory term). Unless she wants to comment.
Still another thing is that we're talking about this usage in relation to
the English-speaking (or even North American) cultural sphere. In Polish
the term "Inuit", if used, may be hardly understandable for people who are
not anthropologists, linguists or, say, sociologists. It is a question of
cultural awareness, which is naturally different here.

[cut my quote]
> There are two problems with the above. First, "Eskimo" is
> *never* used to reference non-Eskimo Arctic people. [cut]
> Eskimo is restricted to Inuit and Yupik people.

Seems only sensible and Wiki is probably wrong here. Obviously you are not
merely a theoretician, such as myself, so why not send them an email with
suggested corrections?

> It should be noted that Mowat writes *very* good stories!
[cut]

You got me checking Polish sites for him :-) And, yes, the guy's been
translated into Polish! There are a couple of books available.

Thanks for joining in.
Best,

elgar

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15. Data: 2004-11-16 22:25:50

Temat: Re: znow o jezyku polskim
Od: elgar_mail <e...@b...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:43:55 -0900, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
[cut]
> Hence I read your comment with great interest!
And vice versa.

> Yes, they are clearly wrong. However... since about 90% of what
> you can find on the Internet, or written in books in the library
> for that matter, about Eskimos is basically wrong on some
> significant way, correcting every error is not a small
> project. :-)

I can see your point. Still, you have to start with something ;-) Wiki is
created by the Internet community and everyone is invited to add and
correct, which obviously has its good and its bad sides.

Regards,

elgar

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16. Data: 2004-11-18 11:18:18

Temat: Re: znow o jezyku polskim
Od: Marek Krużel <h...@g...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:21:45 +0100 "Natalia"
<k...@p...onet.pl>
w:<4...@n...onet.pl> ma tyle do powiedzenia:

> po pierwsze
> - znacie moze jakis mniej publiczny sposob niz grupa dysk.
> na prezentacje po polsku swych _przemyslen_?
> (co bym wam grupy nie zasmiecala
> gdy najdzie mnie chec pogaworzenia po polsku) ;)

nie znam ;)

> poza tym - to zadne odkrycie, ale ludzie faktycznie bardzo
> niewiele slow potrzebuja by sie w danym jezyku wypowiedziec.

chyba zwłaszcza w angielskim

> jednoczesnie mozna znac swietnie dany jezyk i i tak nie umiec
> sie w nim swobodnie wypowiadac

można znać tylko biernie

> tymczasem sa slowa po polsku, ktore mi przez gardlo nie przejda
> ale moge je wypowiedziec bez problemu po ang i niem.

jakie?

> BTW, niemcy i angole maja ten jezyk od matki (muttersprache)
> polacy od ojcow dostaja jezyk _ojczysty_
> ciekawe ;)

macierz - ojczyzna, to się może zmieniać, ale od czego zależy?

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17. Data: 2004-11-20 20:50:49

Temat: Re: znow o jezyku polskim
Od: "darek miauu" <t...@W...gazeta.pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Natalia <k...@p...onet.pl> napisał(a):

> po pierwsze
> - znacie moze jakis mniej publiczny sposob niz grupa dysk.
> na prezentacje po polsku swych _przemyslen_?

Pewnie, ze znam... :)
W centrum Glasgow maja przesympatyczna knajpeczke.
Jesli wiec najdzie Cie nagla i nieodparta ochota na uzycie jezyka polskiego,
to nic, tylko przyjezdzaj. :)
Ja tam na rozmowe po polsku zawsze chetnie znajde chwilke.

> oki, to tyle, w ten wietrzny i pochmurny dzien ;)
> a w domu czeka na mnie prawdziwa, przepyszna zupa kalafiorowa
> mojego autorstwa

Mozesz przywiezc wiaderko. Nie obraze sie :)

Pozdrawiam,
Darek.

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