Choroba z niewiedzy...

Liczba wypowiedzi w tym wątku: 21

11. Data: 2007-06-21 11:23:15

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Jurek" <m...@o...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Użytkownik "MT" <s...@d...pl> napisał w wiadomości
news:f5dc79$jbj$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
>A zdaje Pan sobie sprawe Panie Jurku ze panskie wypociny wielu osobnikow
>moze przyjac za pewnik i zaczac stosowac diete SUMO, czy wezmie pan pozniej
>odpowiedzialnosc na siebie za choroby wywolane ta dieta ? Tym bardziej ze
>nie ma zadnych naukowych podstaw do twierdzenia ze ta dieta jest zdrowa.
>
Wiele różnych diet polecają lekarze, szczególnie diet beztłuszczowych,
wysokowęglowodanowych, które są bardzo szkodliwe dla organizmu... Czy
lekarze i dietetycy, promujący dietę w oparciu o oficjalną piramidę żywienia
odpowiadają za to propagowanie? Narażają ludzi na wiele chorób, to
oczywiste. Pytanie rzecz jasna, retoryczne.
Ja w pełni odpowiadam za propagowanie czy sugerowanie diety optymalnej.
Jestem jednym z wyjątków na grupie, którzy nie są anonimowi. Znają mnie
wszyscy z nazwiska, i to, że jestem z Poznania. Nie boję się podać swojego
adresu czy telefonu. Po prostu odpowiadam za to co robię...
Poniżej wklejam opinię Diety Optymalnej Instytutu Medycyny Doświadczalnej i
Klinicznej im. Mossakowskiego PAN.
>
Wklejam poniższy tekst, ponieważ o "szkodliwości" diety wiedzą wszyscy, bo
jest powtarzana czasami u cioci na imieninach. Ale nikomu nie chce się
wejrzeć na stronę Instytutu Medycyny Doświadczalnej? Pachnie mi to po prostu
zwykła ignorancją... a może sabotaż odpowiednich kręgów?...:))) Ale pewnie
jedno i drugie...
Ja sobie tego nie wymyśliłem Szanowny Panie MT
>

DZIĘKUJĘ PRACOWNIKOM INSTYTUTU MEDYCYNY DOŚWIADCZALNEJ I KLINICZNEJ IM.
MOSSAKOWSKIEGO PAN

Na stronie internetowej Instytutu Medycyny Doświadczalnej i Klinicznej
Polskiej Akademii Nauk, z Zakładu Farmakologii Doświadczalnej, zamieszczono
w dniu 2 października 2006 roku informację dotyczącą wyników badań nad
wpływem diety optymalnej ludzi "zdrowych" stosujących Żywienie Optymalne u
siebie przez okres kilku lat, średnio ponad 5 lat.

"Dieta Kwaśniewskiego wysokotłuszczowa, niskowęglowodanowa, ketogenna jest
uważana za miażdżycorodną i szkodliwą dla zdrowia, chociaż nie opublikowano
żadnych badań dotyczących jej wpływu na organizm ludzki." - napisano w
informacji.
Jakie były przyczyny tego, że nie opublikowano żadnej pracy o skutkach
stosowania Żywienia Optymalnego u chorych na różne choroby w ŻADNYM
czasopiśmie medycznym uważającym się za naukowe? Uważni czytelnicy moich
książek i licznych artykułów wiedzą co było przyczyną niepisanego zakazu
drukowania moich prac naukowych w czasopismach medycznych zaliczanych do
"naukowych".
"Najwyższe w tym względzie autorytety" uznały ponad 35 lat temu Żywienie
Optymalne za wybitnie szkodliwe dla zdrowia i tak twierdzą nadal oni i ich
uczniowie dobierani drogą selekcji wyłącznie negatywnej. Spostrzeżenie ks.
Prof. Włodzimierza Sedlaka, że "mechanizmy nauki od dawna mielą
inteligentnych i zdolnych zostawiając słabizny intelektualne" zawsze było
aktualne i jest aktualne obecnie.
Tysiące lekarzy w Polsce i w kilkudziesięciu innych krajach potrafiło
zapoznać się z moją wiedzą, zrozumieć ją, przyjąć za słuszną i prawdziwą.
Stosują tę wiedzę w leczeniu chorych na różne choroby, uzyskując rezultaty
niemożliwe do uzyskania przy pomocy wszystkich innych metod leczenia. Kilku
profesorów w Polsce również potrafiło zrozumieć wiedzę o Żywieniu
Optymalnym: prof. Zbigniew Żółtkowski, prof. Kazimierz Boczar, prof. Hentyk
Rafalski, szef służby zdrowia Wojska Polskiego płk doc. Dr Czesław Półtorak
i kilku innych, ale większość bez zapoznania się z tą wiedzą, bez
przeprowadzenia jakichkolwiek badań uznało i nadal uznaje ŻO za wybitnie
szkodliwe dla zdrowia.
Twierdzą, że po kilkuletnim stosowaniu ŻO musi rozwinąć się miażdżyca. W
czerwcu 1999 r. W "Dzienniku Zachodnim" przedstawiono stanowisko Wydziału VI
Nauk Medycznych Polskiej Akademii Nauk w sprawie "diety optymalnej dra Jana
Kwaśniewskiego. Komitet Terapii PAN uznał tzw. "dietę optymalną" lek. med.
Jana Kwaśniewskiego za wybitnie szkodliwą dla zdrowia. Pod tym stanowiskiem
podpisało się 30 profesorów, w tym obecny minister chorób, zwany przewrotnie
ministrem zdrowia, a zdrowia w Narodzie Polskim jest bardzo mało. Natomiast
chorych i chorób najwięcej w całej naszej historii.
OKOŁO POŁOWA Polaków ma nadwagę lub otyłość, na nadciśnienie choruje około 9
milionów, na cukrzycę blisko 4 miliony, choroby stawów to dalsze 6 milionów,
choroby serca, naczyń, zawały, udary mózgu to dalsze miliony chorych. W 1935
r. W Polsce naliczono nieco ponad 5 tysięcy chorych na nowotwory, ponad 80
zakładów leczniczych nie spotkało się z nowotworami. Obecnie chorych na
nowotwory jest około 500 tysięcy, rocznie zapada na choroby nowotworowe 120
tysięcy ludzi, z których 80 tysięcy umiera Liczba osób niepełnosprawnych
przekracza 5 milionów.
Przez 2 miesiące (sierpień, wrzesień) przebywała w jednej z Arkadii siostra
zakonna z Charkowa. Przyjechała ciężko chora, ważyła 154 kg. Po 2 miesiącach
wszystkie jej dolegliwości ustąpiły, wyjechała z wagą 115 kg, czyli o 39 kg
lżejsza. W czasie pobytu nigdy nie była głodna.
"Nie ma nieuleczalnie chorych, niedostateczna jest tylko nasza wiedza" -
napisał Krakowianin XX wieku w nauce prof. Julian Aleksandrowicz. Niewiele
się pomylił. Dieta optymalna nie jest dietą ketogenną. Trzeba spożywać tyle
węglowodanów, aby w moczu nie pojawiały się ciała ketonowe. Na ogół
wystarcza 0,8 g cukrów na 1 kg wagi ciała. Prof. filozofii dr hab. med.
Wolfgang Lutz, pokrewna ze mną dusza i wielki mój przyjaciel, autor książki
"Życie bez pieczywa" na temat Żywienia Optymalnego napisał: "Stosując
ekstremalnie wysoką podaż tłuszczów, niską węglowodanów i białek dr
Kwaśniewski uzyskuje rezultaty znacznie prze-
wyższające te, którzy uzyskiwali inni stosujący inne niskowęglowodanowe
diety. Najważniejszą zasadą optymalnego żywienia jest utrzymanie ścisłych
proporcji miedzy trzema głównymi składnikami odżywczymi - białkiem,
tłuszczem i węglowodanami jak 1 : 2,5-3,5 : 0,8 (wyrażone w jednostkach
wagowych).
Te proporcje - "złota zasada życia" - jest oryginalnym odkryciem Jana
Kwaśniewskiego. Rezultaty jakie osiąga Jan Kwaśniewski mówią same za
siebie...
Prace dra Jana Kwaśniewskiego wykazały, jak absurdalnym jest powszechne
przekonanie o szkodliwości tłuszczów zwierzęcych"
W badaniach na zwierzętach prof. H. Rafalski wykazał, że ŻO ma wybitne
działanie przeciwmiażdżycowe. W badaniach na ludziach chorych na miażdżycowe
zwężenie tętnic wieńcowych i inne towarzyszące choroby, profesor wykazał, że
ŻO nie powoduje żadnych szkodliwych efektów dla chorych w okresie 6 miesięcy
stosowania diety. Wykazał, że ŻO powoduje szereg korzystnych efektów u
chorych i to w każdym przypadku. Nieszkodliwość stosowania ŻO u chorych i
korzystne efekty w każdym przypadku, potwierdzili recenzenci pracy: prof.
Jan Hasik i prof. Jan Tatoń. Wyniki badań zostały przesłane do Instytutu
Żywności i Żywienia w Warszawie. Nie zostały opublikowane, a głęboko ukryli
je ci, którzy postanowili trwać przy swoich poglądach.
Dziękuję Pracownikom Instytutu Medycyny Doświadczalnej i Klinicznej im.
Mossakowskiego PAN za to, że przeprowadzili badania, które potwierdziły
nieszkodliwość Żywienia Optymalnego stosowanego przez ok. 5 lat,
potwierdziły dobre zdrowie badanych i szczególnie za odwagę wykazaną przez
opublikowanie wyników w Internecie.
Może za Wami pójdą inni? lek. med. Jan Kwaśniewski

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end

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Zobacz także

12. Data: 2007-06-21 13:10:51

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Jurek" <m...@o...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

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13. Data: 2007-06-21 14:51:06

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Jeff" <j...@v...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

MT napisal:

> A zdaje Pan sobie sprawe Panie Jurku ze panskie wypociny wielu osobnikow
> moze przyjac za pewnik i zaczac stosowac diete SUMO, czy wezmie pan pozniej
> odpowiedzialnosc na siebie za choroby wywolane ta dieta ? Tym bardziej ze
> nie ma zadnych naukowych podstaw do twierdzenia ze ta dieta jest zdrowa.

Niestety ten czlowiek nie zdaje sobie sprawy z niczego.

* juz tutaj podawalem informacje, ktora zamiescil jeden z bylych fanatykow tej
sekty, ale widze. ze trzeba ja zamiescic jeszcze raz:

"W tym stowarzyszeniu mają rację bytu tylko klakierzy, którzy uznali naszego
"GURU" bogiem i nic ani nikt nie jest w stanie posunąć ich wiedzy do przodu.

Ich zadaniem są działania mające na celu robienie majątku na głupocie i
naiwności ludzkiej.

Każdy człowiek, który ma nieco inny sposób myślenia lub próbuje dociekać jest od
razu eliminowany. W takim kształcie Stowarzyszenia, (i mówię to ustami wielu
optymalnych, którym zdrowie i życie własne i innych nie jest obojętne) jesteśmy
i musimy być nazywani "SEKTĄ". Każda wiedza musi się rozwijać i tylko wtedy
staje się pożyteczna dla ogółu. Wiedza przekazana nam przez rodaka w osobie lek.
Jana Kwaśniewskiego jest na pewno drogą słuszną. Lecz pewnikiem jest już, iż nie
jest ona optymalna. Dowodem na to jest wiele osób cierpiących na swoje
schorzenia nadal.
Spośród nich wielu jest już w ZAŚWIATACH. W tym ruchu jest wielu głupców co
widać na Zjazdach"

* Wklejam drugi raz informacje, ktora zamiescil na australijskim forum nalezacym
do tych szalonych zwolennikow optymalnosci, czlowiek, ktory po wielu latach
dokladnego przestrzegania zasad tzw. optymalnej diety, a u ktorego zdiagnozowano
IV stadium nieoperowalnego nowotworu pluc z przerzutem do mozgu:

http://tinyurl.com/2sdmju

To oczywiscie jest tylko jeden z kolejnych przykladow nowotworow, ktore
pojawiaja sie u dlugoletnich zwolennikow tego typu odzywiania.

Jesli masz ochote poczytac wiecej na ten temat, to zapoznaj sie z linkami
zamieszczonymi na tej stronie:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyskusja:Dieta_niskow%C
4%99glowodanowa

* A tak np. "przyczynowo wyleczone" zostaly osoby chore Na SLA:

http://www.dobradieta.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13519
&start=45

* itd, itp.......tego typu informacje pojawiaja sie i przewaznie szybko sa
kasowane, wiadomo przeciez, ze nie mozna podkopywac "geniuszu" mistrza
J.K. i w ten sposob dochodow sekty.

A arcymadry Jurus nadal sobie bredzi, bo doskonale wie, ze jest kompletnie w
Polsce bezkarny.

ps. Jedynym reakcja propagatorow optymalnosci na tego typu doniesienia, sa
tylko i wylacznie: arogancja, wysmiewanie sie i ordynarne wyzwiska pod adresem
osob piszacych na ten temat.

--
Wysłano z serwisu OnetNiusy: http://niusy.onet.pl

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14. Data: 2007-06-21 18:27:30

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Jurek" <m...@o...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Gdyby Pan przeczytłby książki (książkę) o diecie dra Kwaśniewskiego, a
dowodzącą, że dostarczenie organizmowi najwartościowszego białka, tłuszczu i
węglowodanow w odpowiedniej proporcji, a zawierającą wszystkie witaminy,
mikro i amkroelementy, składniki mineralne, to może zrozumiałby Pan dlaczego
ta dieta nazywa się optymalna, czyli najlepsza.
Pozdrawiam Jurek M.

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15. Data: 2007-06-22 07:50:50

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "jangr" <j...@i...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Użytkownik "Jeff" <j...@v...pl> napisał w wiadomości
news:1bf0.000000b7.467a9059@newsgate.onet.pl...
> ps. Jedynym reakcja propagatorow optymalnosci na tego typu doniesienia, sa
> tylko i wylacznie: arogancja, wysmiewanie sie i ordynarne wyzwiska pod
> adresem
> osob piszacych na ten temat.

Instytut Medycyny Doświadczalnej i Klinicznej
im. M. Mossakowskiego PAN
02-106 Warszawa, ul. Pawińskiego 5
tel. (48-22) 6685250, fax (48-22) 6685532

Zakład Farmakologii Doświadczalnej
Badania
Projekty

Cytuję:
"Czynniki ryzyka miażdżycy u osób długotrwale odżywiających się dietą
wysokotłuszczową.
----------------------------------------------
Celem badań była ocena czynników ryzyka miażdżycy u osób długotrwale
odżywiających się tzw. "dietą Kwaśniewskiego". Ta niskowęglowodanowa,
wysokotłuszczowa, ketogenna dieta jest uważana za miażdżycorodną i szkodliwą
dla zdrowia - chociaż nie opublikowano żadnych badań dotyczących jej wpływu
na organizm ludzki. Grupę badaną stanowiło 30 zdrowych mieszkańców
Częstochowy (17 kobiet, 13 mężczyzn, wiek 50,6+-2,9 lat), które oświadczyły,
że stosują "dietę Kwaśniewskiego" od co najmniej 1 roku (średnio przez
5,0+-0,5 lat). W surowicy osób badanych stwierdzono podwyższony poziom kwasu
beta-hydroksymasłowego (289+-44 mM/L), bardzo wysokie stężenie cholesterolu
całkowitego (282+-9 mg/dL) i cholesterolu LDL (192+-8 mg/dL), ale zarazem
wysokie stężenie cholesterolu HDL (69+-3 mg/dL) i niski poziom triglicerydów
(103+-8 mg/dL) oraz glukozy (89+-1 mg/dL). Stężenia insuliny (6,5+-0,7
mU/mL), homocysteiny (10,5+-0,6 mM/L) i białka C-reaktywnego (2,7+-0,8
mg/L). Stężenie triglicerydów było ujemnie skorelowane z poziomem
cholesterolu HDL (r=-0,54, P=0,004), a dodatnio z poziomem insuliny (r=0,75,
P<10exp-5). Chociaż w badanej grupie cholesterol całkowity i cholesterol HDL
były wyraźnie podwyższone, to godne podkreślenia jest, że były to jedyne
zwiększone czynniki ryzyka miażdżycy w grupie badanej. W wyniku
podwyższonego cholesterolu HDL współczynnik aterogenności (iloczyn
[cholesterol całkowity]/[cholesterol HDL]) wynosił u osób badanych 4,2+-0,2,
co nie wskazuje na zwiększone zagrożenie miażdżycą. Podsumowując, omówione
badania nie potwierdzają hipotezy o miażdżycorodności "diety
Kwaśniewskiego"."
Koniec cytatu.
Źródło:
http://www.cmdik.pan.pl/zespoly/zfd/badania.html#3

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16. Data: 2007-06-22 12:46:06

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Jeff" <j...@v...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Jangr napisal:

> http://www.cmdik.pan.pl/zespoly/zfd/badania.html#3

No i co mi podajesz za przyklad? Znowu tendencyjnie wygrzebales cos z mojego postu?
Przeciez to ja ten link na tej grupie pierwszy wkleilem, aby udowodnic jednemu
z was, ze jest to dieta o charakterze ketogennym, bo twierdzil, ze to nie jest
prawda.
To zreszta jest w tej waszej sekcie "normalme", ze jak sie wam cos zyczliwie
podpowie, to potem twierdzicie, ze to wy "odkryliscie" i jeszcze wiache rzucicie
w ramach podziekowania za wklad w "rozwoj" i postepy waszej sekty:)

* Podaj lepiej swoje wyniki, bo sprawa wcale nie jest taka oczywista dla kazdej
osoby ktora ta wasza cudowna diete stosuje, bowiem np.czlowiek o ktorym
mowa pod ponizszym linkiem, a ktory chorowal na cukrzyce, niestety nie mial juz
takiego szczecia i nie ma go wsrod zywych, ale sobie "poeksperymentowal":

http://forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=36&w=294807
95&a=29583303

Cytuje:

Sekcja zwłok ukazała kolosalne otłuszczenie narządów wewnętrznych i ogólne
zatrucie organizmu (przypominam, że człowiek ten, bardzo skrupulatny i
odpowiedzialny, trzymał się zasad diety Kwaśniewskiego w 100%. Cóż ostatni zawał
przeszedł tuż po powrocie z wczasów optymalnych w sierpniu br.

* ten tez sobie nadal ekperymentuje pod okiem opty_eksperymentatora:

http://www.lido.optymalni.org/infopage.php?id=104

Cytuje:

"Przy badaniu okresowym w 2001 roku stwierdzono u mnie chorobę wieńcową. W 2005
roku, w marcu, miałem pierwszy zawał. W czerwcu 2006 roku, z powodu silnych
bólów w klatce piersiowej wezwałem pogotowie. Po badaniu zabrano mnie do
szpitala, gdzie przebywałem 6 dni. Dwa miesiące później ponowny pobyt w
szpitalu. Orzeczenie lekarzy-drugi zawał serca. W trakcie pobytu w szpitalu
wykonano u mnie koronarografię. Rezultat badania to wstawienie by-passów w ciągu
6 tygodni."

* a ten zrezygnowal po kilku latch, bo mial powazne problemy, a teraz po zmianie
diety ma wyniki rewelacyjne:

http://www.dobradieta.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?p=72406
&highlight=#72406

Mial szczescie, ze jest jeszcze mlody i w pore zmadrzal:)

Jak widac z ta "madroscia", jesli chodzi o niektorych z Was nie jest taka prosta
i oczywista sprawa:)

Ps. ty lepiej przeanalizuj sobie spokojnie i bez uprzedzen do mnie, informacje
ktore podalem w poscie do MT, a ktore w koncu zacytowalem za jednym z was.
Bonifacy Cz., wreszcie zrozumial o co tak naprawde tej niskoweglowodanowej
sekcie chodzi. I na przyszlosc nie karm mnie informacjami, ktore ja podaje.

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17. Data: 2007-06-22 16:13:26

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "MT" <s...@d...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Dzieki za info w kazdym badz razie Panie Jurku zapoznaj sie Wacpan z Dieta
ludow majacych najwyzsza srednia wieku Problem w tym ze przecietnego
polaka ciezko przekonac do takiej diety juz abstrachujac od tego ze nie
kazdy organizm sobie poradzi z taka dieta jak wiadomo

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18. Data: 2007-06-22 16:41:32

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Jurek" <m...@o...pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Użytkownik "MT" <s...@d...pl> napisał w wiadomości
news:f5gso2$5qg$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
> Dzieki za info w kazdym badz razie Panie Jurku zapoznaj sie Wacpan z Dieta
> ludow majacych najwyzsza srednia wieku Problem w tym ze przecietnego
> polaka ciezko przekonac do takiej diety juz abstrachujac od tego ze nie
> kazdy organizm sobie poradzi z taka dieta jak wiadomo
>
Póki co optymalnych jest w Polsce 2 miliony, a Szanowny Waćpan tego nie
wiesz...:)))
Najwięcej na Śląsku, w Wielkopolsce i kieleckiem (dawnym)...
Mało Waćpan wiesz, ale to nie umniejsz zdrowia optymalnym...:)))
Pozdrawiam Jurek M.

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19. Data: 2007-06-24 16:50:23

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Cancer" <o...@m...com> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Użytkownik "Jurek"

> Póki co optymalnych jest w Polsce 2 miliony, a Szanowny Waćpan tego nie
> wiesz...:)))
> Najwięcej na Śląsku, w Wielkopolsce i kieleckiem (dawnym)...
> Mało Waćpan wiesz, ale to nie umniejsz zdrowia optymalnym...:)))
> Pozdrawiam Jurek M.

Ta Jurek zliczył ich optymalnym kalkulatorem -))))))))))

Cancer

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20. Data: 2007-06-25 13:29:24

Temat: Re: Choroba z niewiedzy...
Od: "Hania " <v...@g...SKASUJ-TO.pl> szukaj wiadomości tego autora

Jurek <m...@o...pl> napisał(a):

> A Pan czepia się tego blanszowania, bo to jest istota sprawy? A nie lepiej
> skrytykować meritum sprawy zawartej we wątku?

błedne założenia nie poprowadzą nigdy do nieprzekłamanego rezultatu panie
Jurek. Nie będziesz pan przeklejal bełkotów, nie będziemy się czepiać.
Skoro zgrzyta to usenetowiczom nie posiadającym gruntownego wykształcenia
medycznego, to tym bardziej lekarze unoszą brew ze zdziwienia.

Meritum jest takie, żeś Pan niesamowicie niedouczony i niewiarygodnie
zaślepiony przez swą sektę, na dodatek reagujecie jazgotem na argumenty.
Nie napiszę, że ufam lekarzom medycyny konwencjonalnej w 100%, ale zaufam
osobie, która: wie, co mówi, potrafi to udowodnić i potrafi przyznać się do
błędu. Żadnej z powyższych umiejętności państwo nie posiedliście. I w rzeczy
samej znakomicie, że ścieracie się tutaj a nie na jakiejś szarlatańskiej
grupie. Może widok każdego z państwa argumentów błyskawicznie obalanego
przez interlokutorów uchroni kogoś, pozwoli się zastanowić komuś, kto
zastanawia się nad sekciarskim sposobem na życie.

h.

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